Due to lack of use the forum is now read only. Please post questions etc in our facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/128453854681/

BPCC 2017

BFPCR committee members only
All committee business in here. Please move topics found in other areas if needed to here for committee to discuss
Jes@GCRE
Pedalcar racer
Pedalcar racer
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by Jes@GCRE » Sun Apr 03, 2016 4:21 pm

To be honest, I can't ask Geoff or Phil to give up their weekend so that I can enjoy my racing and not stand them a shower and a camp site either.

User avatar
dralphs
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:50 pm
Location: Oxford
Team: Falcon Notnray
Contact:

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by dralphs » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:38 am

To resurrect this topic.

had quite a chat with Mark & Phil at Bruntingthorpe and to precis what we discussed in no particular order (mark/Phil please correct any errors/misunderstandings).

school term dates http://myschoolholidays.com/

Uk Holiday dates http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/uk/2017

1/ Committee need to meet before AGM preferably before Curborough to discuss and agree 2017 calendar to present at AGM so we have a head start for 2017 publicity.

2/ Each race where possible needs a committed organiser (or was it the race organiser should be committed :D ) and preference to inclusion on calendar should be given to races with one. Only in exceptional circumstances should it be a joint committee undertaking.

3/ Discussed dropping down to 5 races as per Jes original post, thought losing 2 races might be a step too far but should consider (temporarily) dropping one race only to give 6 races at 5 venues

4/ Thought the early season opener was too early and even R2 date whilst it works better with no camping has this year (and next) caused loss of Scouting teams due to St George's day. So dates need to be looked at again bearing in mind Exams, Holidays etc.

5/ Solihull doesn't seem popular with younger teams probably due to "the hill" and possible supervision issues with toilets a long walk away in a public place. There are also concerns with it being a public facility and risk of injury to viewing public should a car leave the track. It could however be a showcase for the sport but so far there is little evidence of teams entering having seen us there.

6/ Suggest we drop down to 6 races over 5 venues to allow the following rejig

R1 Wombwell - 3 x sprints - mid april to avoid easter (april 16 in 2017) and St Georges Day parades/Windsor and gain hopefully better weather. Suggest April 10th or 30th in 2017
Organiser Team 105 Gary since he tacitly offered before we went with Shrewsbury.

(If anyone knows a better opening venue (sheltered/facilities/interesting track etc) and an organiser we can swop/substitute.)

R2 Shenington - 24 hour - usual date last weekend June. Organiser TBC Given the work maybe this should be more than one person.

R3 Bruntingthorpe - 6 hour - Either Sat 22 or Sun 23 July - Organiser Mark or TBC

R4 - Blackbushe - sprints - Sat 2nd Sept - Organiser Dave

R5 - Blackbushe - 100 mile - Sun 3rd Sept - Organiser Dave

R6 - Curborough - 7 Hour Day/Night - Sat 30 Sept - Sept - Organiser Jes

Idea behind this was to give a new team more time between publicity/xmas/new year to get orgainised for first race. Avoid date clashes with Easter, St Georges day (lose Scout teams), Exams and where possible holidays (Mark!!!). Hopefully a later start will bring better weather but still need a sheltered venue for Round 1 and went for Wombwell over Shrewsbury as we have a possible organiser.

Suggest that Bruntingthorpe is a more challenging track than solihull, has water/toilets on site and in July could be very warm and pleasant and may work as an intro for new teams or those from Ringwood to come along and have a try out. Given the venue could we have a "try out" area behind pits with a couple of rental cars.

Another option would be not to have a July race to allow teams to go to Ringwood without the impact of having a championship race a week later with a possible damaged car.

Its a pity we have the big gap before Shenington as we could even out the gaps between races (1 a month) but looking at Exams dates I don't see how unless the May half term is used, but again a lot of Scout teams will be camping then or Duke of Edinburgh (inc Schools) or last minute revision. So probably not workable.

A couple of ideas since yesterday

We need to get the "kit car" and/or rental cars sorted out and publicised to give new teams a low cost entry into the sport.

As Steph has mentioned in a Ringwood post, we need to try and keep a register of cars and when teams disband try to put old owners in touch with prospective new owners so that we recycle cars we know are "out there" but unused back into teams that can use them.

Maybe we need a new class/trophy to encourage new teams, For a new team its easy to be disillusioned after a few races/season as you are far behind the "big boys" and are unlikely to get a trophy at least in PC1 or PC2. Thats why we have run a PCD or PCZ the last couple of years to work the rules to our advantage and pick up a couple of trophies to encourage our Explorers.
So maybe a best Rookie trophy, or most improved team or split classes for "semi-pro" vs "amateur" teams, call it what you will but something to encourage teams to come back for more and not to get discouraged.
I'm not advocating however that we go down the line of prizes for everyone with no winners/losers like some school sports day have - its still a competitive sport and should remain so.

we probably also need to look at what equipment we have, who looks after it and where it is stored. Its probably starting to look like we need secure storage somewhere central and a means to get it to each race (trailer) but that then brings more issues. One for discussion.

Sorry for the long post but it was a long chat.
Dave
Falcon Notnray Racing
www.yarntonscouts.org.uk

User avatar
AlanGoodman
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:13 am
Location: Hemel Hempstead
Team: Apollo Racing
Contact:

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by AlanGoodman » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:22 pm

Best chance of getting the committee together before the AGM is going to be Blackbushe, maybe after the racing on Saturday? We should be able to get most of it worked out before then though I think.

Steph mentioned (on Facebook) the possibility of an indoor venue in Bournmouth.
Maybe that would be an option for round 1? I've sent a message to her on Facebook.

If we need a venue relatively near to Manchester for organising purposes then the only one I can think of is Preston (nice circuit with excellent facilities) - BHPC are there this weekend if anyone wants to have a look.

The track at Wombwell is fantastic - I'd like to give that a go in the nice weather (it's also closer to Mark than Bruntingthorpe if he's looking at organising).

I think we should ideally be doing an endurance race before Shenington if possible.

User avatar
dralphs
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:50 pm
Location: Oxford
Team: Falcon Notnray
Contact:

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by dralphs » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:35 pm

The idea for moving Bruntingthorpe to July was to gain better weather since it is exposed
Dave
Falcon Notnray Racing
www.yarntonscouts.org.uk

Jes@GCRE
Pedalcar racer
Pedalcar racer
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by Jes@GCRE » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:07 am

I agree with some of this, especially that Bruntingthorpe is a far better circuit to introduce new teams and drivers to than, well, pretty much anywhere else we go because frankly it's the most fun circuit to drive (and actually, the closing speeds between fast cars and not so fast cars are less).

Solihull is the worst for all the above reasons but additionally there is a real CP problem.
Not that Swebbelli's reduced participation has been any sort of "policy", it's just that kids talk to each other and have voted with their feet that they don't enjoy it.

I will run the publicity side of Bruntingthorpe next year on whatever day you hand it to me on but this needs to be decided during the summer as Dave says.

I think we need to learn that the biggest part of running any event is publicity. We've started to make small steps again in this area which is great but can't let it slip again.

Also, we should be looking at always providing somewhere where the competitors, supporters and any spectators we have can get a cup of tea. What 22nd Rugby provided on Saturday wasn't massive but it was spot on for a focal point. Can I ask that we could look into having a lap scoring screen in the region of where people are likely to be queuing though perhaps? I know these things don't just happen but something to think on.

Mainly... we should not be averse to trying this sort of thing.
The worst that can happen is we have another Solihull 2014 or Shrewsbury 2016 and we can cope.

User avatar
dralphs
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:50 pm
Location: Oxford
Team: Falcon Notnray
Contact:

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by dralphs » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:05 pm

Jes@GCRE wrote: Also, we should be looking at always providing somewhere where the competitors, supporters and any spectators we have can get a cup of tea. What 22nd Rugby provided on Saturday wasn't massive but it was spot on for a focal point. Can I ask that we could look into having a lap scoring screen in the region of where people are likely to be queuing though perhaps? I know these things don't just happen but something to think on.
I suggested to Mark that we need a more permanent arrangement for race control and maybe we could combine the two since they both need power, both get footfall, and if you want a timing screen really need to be next to each other.

So either a Marquee/Gazebo 6x3 or larger, or a box trailer with catering facilites one end and a awning?

Issues i can see. Storage, Transport, Maintenance. But not impossible
Dave
Falcon Notnray Racing
www.yarntonscouts.org.uk

User avatar
dralphs
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:50 pm
Location: Oxford
Team: Falcon Notnray
Contact:

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by dralphs » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:17 pm

No Idea what Phil already has but quick google throws up

VGA OVER CAT5 VIDEO VIA ETHERNET CABLE works up to 60M using quality Cat6 cable £5

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-VGA-OVER- ... 1840024209

and about £10 for the Cat6 cable
Dave
Falcon Notnray Racing
www.yarntonscouts.org.uk

Jes@GCRE
Pedalcar racer
Pedalcar racer
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by Jes@GCRE » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:02 pm

Everything comes down to transport, storage and maintenance.
Problem is, due to vandalism of a car inside the scout hut, and repeated vandalism to the trailer outside of it, my house is now totally rammed with pedal cars.

User avatar
dralphs
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:50 pm
Location: Oxford
Team: Falcon Notnray
Contact:

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by dralphs » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:19 pm

Jes@GCRE wrote:Everything comes down to transport, storage and maintenance.
Problem is, due to vandalism of a car inside the scout hut, and repeated vandalism to the trailer outside of it, my house is now totally rammed with pedal cars.
It always does.

Unfortunately our Hut car park and grassed area isn't secure so not really an option, fortunately (touch wood) we havn't had any recent issues but our pedalcars and trailer are parked at leaders houses.

I suppose one option would be a caravan storage place or somewhere like bruntingthorpe. We used to be able to store at Youlbury SAC but now they are HQ run thats no longer an option.
Dave
Falcon Notnray Racing
www.yarntonscouts.org.uk

Jes@GCRE
Pedalcar racer
Pedalcar racer
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by Jes@GCRE » Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:59 pm

Hi,

After chatting with Graham over the weekend, he suggested that this was brought back to the top of the agenda.

Remember it was written after a somewhat disastrous Shrewsbury not in the rosy glow of a successful Shenington but please also remember it was the least well attended Shenington since 2008 with just 23 cars taking the start so this is still very much relevent...


_______________________________________________________________

Dear Concerned People*,

I think it may be time to bring matters to a head.

To be fair, this has been building for several years.

In my opinion, the lack of an overall BPCC publicity person (and at present there is no one willing or able to take this on) has combined with other factors to bring about the situation we have at present.
Some of these have been, with hindesight, within our control and some of them are just bad luck - personal and tragic reasons meaning we have lost people.

Either way, if we simply carry on with "business as usual" then we have to expect that the sport will either die completely or descend to the level where the teams we have no longer see it as worth the time and money competing.

Let's face it. Pedal car racing is not an easy sport.
Competing, especially with the logistics and engineering involved in running a team of people with different sizes, styles and levels of ability, is actually very difficult - there are much easier sports to get involved in!
But, as Swebbelli say: "If it isn't hard, it isn't worth it." (I assume they are talking about racing...)

Chris made a suggestion back in November which at the time I brushed off, but since then has seemed more and more sensible as time moves on and interest in the 2016 season opener hasn't started to gather.
(For example, how many people are waxing lyrical about the coming races on facebook or instagram? How many are plugging the bpcc2016 hashtag? 6 perhaps? Anyone outside this committee?)

Here we go then...

The basic idea is, perhaps temporarily, retreat into running 4 events and concentrate on running them well rather than 6 events, at least 2 of which many teams don't support (actually, that is unfair, they are at inconvenient times of year anyway so only the most dedicated followers of the sport will attend).

Therefore I propose, at this early stage, that the 2017 racing calendar should look something like this:

[Easter is April 16th]

Saturday, April 22nd - Bruntingthorpe

July 1st & 2nd - Shenington 24hours

September 2nd - Blackbushe
September 3rd - Blackbushe

Saturday, September 30th - Curborough

4 events, totaling 5 races and 48 hours of racing, on 4 iconic circuits, each of which has it's own "special thing":

Bruntingthorpe: Air museum, planes parked in the pits! And a very different track.
Shenington: A 24 hour race
Blackbushe: A double-header, and the best circuit
Curborough: A day / night race.

It also gives a mix of circuit types:

Bruntingthorpe: All corners
Shenington & Blackbushe: Intermediate
Curborough: Flat out

The advantages I see in this are:

1: We are spread too thinly at present anyway.
2: The whole thing would be more "accessible" as a series of events.
3: If someone (such as Rob Harris) wants to run a new event somewhere then we have some ready-made gaps in the calendar for them.
4: If teams want to do Ringwood, they are not then trying to race the following week.

In fact, as far as Ringwood is concerned, if teams want to do a race in July, perhaps we should be encouraging them to join in Ringwood not making it difficult for them to do so by putting a "compulsory" BPCC event in the week after?

Also, by more "BPCC teams" going to Ringwood and helping Steph spread the word hopefully more "Ringwood Teams" will be encouraged to join us at Blackbushe.

Now the crux of the matter:

This only works if each race has an organising team willing to plug that race as if it is the best (or indeed only!) race in the country and to go out into the local area and generate some interest (remember, this takes several years, it won't happen overnight!).
This drive has to happen 6 to 9 months out - going mad with e-mails 6 weeks before the event is too late to get new teams involved (but is still worth it because you may jog memories or get people to come and watch and they may enter next year of course).

What we need is 4 people, or groups of people, who can take these events on.

History proves time and time again that the sport being successful in the long term is not us attracting a team like Rugby Velo who may run 1 car very effectively for 3 or 4 years, not see it as their prerogative to help the sport in general, and then leave to do other things. (Although we do of course need to aim high and get teams like this to keep moving the sport on and pushing the envelope.)
It is in getting teams like Falcon, Team 105 and Swebbelli hooked who will not only bring multiple cars to multiple events for many years but will muck in, help set events up, and help the sport grow as well.
Remember, Wing Racers were just one of these teams who started out as a group of scouts and grew up to be champions!

What is also lacking, for every race except Shenington and Blackbushe at present, is the local "once a year" teams who give events such variety. The local scouts, the charity teams from local businesses, the local cycling club etc.
We have never even managed this at Curborough. To be fair, we haven't really tried though!
This has to be done at a race by race basis.
Let's be honest, if every race was just Apollo, Swebbelli and Wing, we could meet in a tesco's car park rather than going to all the trouble of hiring these expensive venues.

(As an aside, celebrities doing races only works if they wear their helmets correctly so you can use their photo in publicity material!!)

Anyway, plenty there for people to consider.

I for one would far rather attend 4 enjoyable, well attended, competitive, weekends during the year than call myself British Champion simply because my team was the only one of the front-runners able to attend Shrewsbury and Solihull.

But I think if we do nothing at this stage we will lose everything we have worked so hard to build up since the dark days of 1997.

Jes

*If you think there are more concerned people who need to be added, please say so!

User avatar
dralphs
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:50 pm
Location: Oxford
Team: Falcon Notnray
Contact:

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by dralphs » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:05 pm

I completely agree with most of Jes's post but firstly....

I overheard a couple of comments and off the cuff remarks at the weekend to which at the time i didn't have an answer or suitable response.

They were

Where have all the "noddy" cars gone, the plastic pipe car, the two bikes welded together, the wooden car. In other words the "fun" entries and first timers in scratch built homebrew cars?

Where were the younger teams in PC3 / 4 and notably a big hole in PC2

Should PC3/4 stop at 10pm until 6am to lessen the risk of an accident with such high closing speeds between top 10 teams and PC3/4

£65 for a single entry is a bit high

Should we change age ranges to make PC1 18+ and rejig others


If i had answers to above we wouldn't have a problem.

As far as entry cost - compared to Ringwood - no its not high but maybe the entry + Fed fee doesn't help

PC3/4 stop at 10pm - defeats point of race and to me if a team manager wants to pull team off early due to risk then its up to them but maybe we could look at making slower cars more visable given they often have the poorest rear lights - Not being a driver is it a real problem or just percieved?????

Class changes - i know whose comment it was so will get them to work it up to a proper proposal for AGM

Back to Jes's post.

I'm sure that the weather, dates and demographics have conspired against us this year. Witness our yellow car, entered and until 11:30 Saturday it was driverless until we cobbled together some drivers from parents/helpers/YP from other teams and the marshalls. In fact it turned out to be good publicity as i think we have got a couple of new entries for next year off of it. (and i'm not saying how many "drivers" actually did a lap or two in it bur there were only 6 listed on our team sheet ;) and it was never in contention for any points)

I'm In favour of dropping solihull due to being close to ringwood/Scoutcar/holidays and its a circuit that doesn't suit PC3/4 and has CP issues. Although it generates publicity i don't think it hits the right audience as doesn't result in many new teams.

If Gary of Team 105 happy to organise a northern race maybe we should retain Wombwell in the calendar providing we can agree a date preferably not too early in the year and get a refreshments stand like at Bruntingthorpe.

Thinking of how to attract new teams. I almost wonder if the sport is now too good and competitive and the entry bar for a new team to have some success (and thus come back) is too high. With the rise of youtube, fb etc its easy for people to check what they are up against and after seeing some of the videos decide that they don't stand a chance so why bother.
We know we are very friendly (very friendly compared to some clubs) and willing to bend over backwards to help out any teams new or not however we can.
But for a new team being placed dead last and wondering how you're ever going to be as quick your nearest rival not even Wing or Apollo can be very disheartening. Not everyone takes a long view or uses the classes to their advantage or is happy to just compete and have fun. Having 6 cubs thoroughly disheartened by seeing the car they helped build being thrashed by a solo driver (no offence to Steph) probably won't help when the call goes out to see if they want to race again next year.

So open question - how does HPV or cycle clubs encourage youngsters to keep coming back??

I'm not suggesting we go down the everyone wins a prize route like some schools, although i'm syre the shenington certificates will help. Perhaps we need a split championship with separate points like other sports with Pro teams and amateurs with the amateurs switching status after entry of a certain number of races or success with amateur points also counting to overall championship.
Or possible a award for best new team not judged by race control not on speed/position but other criteria.

I'm happy to take on one race next year as organiser. Two this year was probably too much especially since it looks like i will be trying to run our PCD and pit and race control as Solihull :shock: . Which race that is can be decided later but realistically thats probably Blackbushe or if Jes is serious about stepping down from Shenington then that could be a possibility but i'd need to consult Rose and our Leaders first before taking it on.
Dave
Falcon Notnray Racing
www.yarntonscouts.org.uk

Gary Holly
Licenced Driver
Licenced Driver
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:00 pm

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by Gary Holly » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:45 pm

Dave

Just looking at the dates for next year and have already mentioned, if the 24 hour race was put back to the first weekend in July it would clash with the a National a Scoutcar Races.

This would mean Howling a dog who this year have 3 cars would have to chose but more importantly from Team 105 point of view we would have to chose the Scoutcar Races as we have 10 teams from Cubs through to a Explorers which race .
This year transport effected our team at Shennington so we did have a combined PC2 and 3 Team otherwise we would have had 5 teams this weekend.
The date for Shennington next year would probably see Team 105 not on the starting grid.

Regards

Gary

User avatar
dralphs
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:50 pm
Location: Oxford
Team: Falcon Notnray
Contact:

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by dralphs » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:20 pm

So Jes's proposed dates need amending already then.
Dave
Falcon Notnray Racing
www.yarntonscouts.org.uk

Jes@GCRE
Pedalcar racer
Pedalcar racer
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:34 pm

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by Jes@GCRE » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:21 pm

Yes, wouldn't want Howlin' Dog to miss Shenington...

Seriously though, it mostly depends on which weekend the circuit is available.

User avatar
dralphs
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:50 pm
Location: Oxford
Team: Falcon Notnray
Contact:

Re: BPCC 2017

Post by dralphs » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:27 pm

Can we ignore the who will be organiser and make enquiries for next year venue dates?
Dave
Falcon Notnray Racing
www.yarntonscouts.org.uk

Post Reply